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Our 18 year old Carrier Weathermaker has a strong, sour smell coming from the PVC pipe to the outdoors. In the past week, the furnace fan also often continues after the heat has stopped, so cold air is being forced through our house until I turn off the gas and electric to the furnace and press the manual button on the side of the fire box (my term, as I know little about this stuff).
I am looking at having the furnace replaced because two service people said that this is a major problem and that carbon monoxide could leak into the house. Just to avoid the obvious, I should mention that the air filter is clean and that the limit switch was replaced recently in an effort to fix the fan problem. The fan problem and sour smell continues. I also see a small amount of condensation/water in the furnace.
I read on the internet that Carrier settled a suit alleging that secondary heat exchangers were designed of poor materials and could fail early. As a result, Carrier agrred to replace the secondary heat exchanger if it failed (both parts and labor).
Because I have no idea whether this is the problem...any experts out there who could tell me if it might be?
Thanks.
Answer
It sounds to me like the secondary heat exchanger may have failed, causing the furnace to shut off the heating element but not the fan. That would explain why you are getting cold air blowing through the house - because the thermostat thinks it should still be in heating mode, and so keeps the fan going, but the furnace thinks (probably correctly) that it's not safe to keep the flame on.
Carbon monoxide poisoning is a very real risk in the case of a cracked secondary heat exchanger, so if I were you I would not wait long to replace your furnace. I would also make sure you have a CO detector in every bedroom in your house, so if things do deteriorate to the point where your furnace is leaking CO into the house, you know it instantly and don't asphyxiate in your sleep.
And you are right, there was a class action settlement in both the US and Canada relating to these faulty heat exchangers, although I believe many of the heat exchangers that cracked early on (and caused the class action lawsuits to launch) were the result of installers selling oversized furnaces, which tend to cycle more frequently and therefore cause more wear on components.
In any case, the Carrier settlement is not likely to help you out very much because your furnace is so old and the settlement was prorated based on furnace age. You might get a couple of hundred dollars towards a new furnace. They may pay the full amount to replace the heat exchanger (it should cover both parts and service - don't let the HVAC company charge you a cent) but a furnace isn't really expected to last more than about 20 years, so maybe you just lost out and have to replace yours a couple of years early.
I know the cracked heat exchanger problem has made a lot of people unhappy about Carrier but in fact they are really one of the best furnace companies on the market, and I know several installers who won't install anything else. I installed a Bryant furnace in my own home 13 years ago and it has never caused me any problems (Bryant and Carrier are both made by the same company.) The Carrier Infinity ICS furnace is probably the best furnace on the market - and won't have the same heat exchanger problem you're experiencing.
It sounds to me like the secondary heat exchanger may have failed, causing the furnace to shut off the heating element but not the fan. That would explain why you are getting cold air blowing through the house - because the thermostat thinks it should still be in heating mode, and so keeps the fan going, but the furnace thinks (probably correctly) that it's not safe to keep the flame on.
Carbon monoxide poisoning is a very real risk in the case of a cracked secondary heat exchanger, so if I were you I would not wait long to replace your furnace. I would also make sure you have a CO detector in every bedroom in your house, so if things do deteriorate to the point where your furnace is leaking CO into the house, you know it instantly and don't asphyxiate in your sleep.
And you are right, there was a class action settlement in both the US and Canada relating to these faulty heat exchangers, although I believe many of the heat exchangers that cracked early on (and caused the class action lawsuits to launch) were the result of installers selling oversized furnaces, which tend to cycle more frequently and therefore cause more wear on components.
In any case, the Carrier settlement is not likely to help you out very much because your furnace is so old and the settlement was prorated based on furnace age. You might get a couple of hundred dollars towards a new furnace. They may pay the full amount to replace the heat exchanger (it should cover both parts and service - don't let the HVAC company charge you a cent) but a furnace isn't really expected to last more than about 20 years, so maybe you just lost out and have to replace yours a couple of years early.
I know the cracked heat exchanger problem has made a lot of people unhappy about Carrier but in fact they are really one of the best furnace companies on the market, and I know several installers who won't install anything else. I installed a Bryant furnace in my own home 13 years ago and it has never caused me any problems (Bryant and Carrier are both made by the same company.) The Carrier Infinity ICS furnace is probably the best furnace on the market - and won't have the same heat exchanger problem you're experiencing.
The business I work for uses charcoal indoors?
Joe B
I work for a restaurant that uses charcoal indoors. They do not have adequate ventilation (the kitchen becomes extremely smokey at times) and the ventilation that they do have is extremely clogged and old. I have contacted OSHA twice and filed complaints, never got a call back and have not been able to contact them. I have also contacted the local fire commissioner, he never called me back either. Is there anything I can do about this? I would just like a professional safety worker to check this system out, because we all know that charcoal burning emits carbon monoxide. Anyone have any ideas? Anyone that I could call?
Answer
Checking for Carbon Monoxide is a relatively simple matter, there are CO detectors from Industrial Scientific (the M-40) for less than $400.00. Virtually any Safety Professional could do a test.
Assessing this situation is a little more complicated though. There is not just CO involved, there is the smoke itself which contains other byproducts and chemicals. What you really need is an Industrial Hygienist to have a look at the system. They specialize in chemical and environmental hazards and would be able to calculate the air changes per hour necessary to keep the air healthy.
I do find it odd that OSHA has not acted. I am from Canada, but I would assume they are like our Provinces OH&S Department and would be obligated to act on complaints. I would try again. If they still fail to act, OSHA must answer to an elected offical somewhere along the line. Public officials usually act when their voters take up issues with them.
If all else fails, you can try to convince your emplyer to go down to Wal-Mart and buy a CO detector. The ones you buy there are not as sensitive as the M-40 and will not give you instant read outs, but they will go off if the CO is above the safe levels for a period of time.
Good luck!
Checking for Carbon Monoxide is a relatively simple matter, there are CO detectors from Industrial Scientific (the M-40) for less than $400.00. Virtually any Safety Professional could do a test.
Assessing this situation is a little more complicated though. There is not just CO involved, there is the smoke itself which contains other byproducts and chemicals. What you really need is an Industrial Hygienist to have a look at the system. They specialize in chemical and environmental hazards and would be able to calculate the air changes per hour necessary to keep the air healthy.
I do find it odd that OSHA has not acted. I am from Canada, but I would assume they are like our Provinces OH&S Department and would be obligated to act on complaints. I would try again. If they still fail to act, OSHA must answer to an elected offical somewhere along the line. Public officials usually act when their voters take up issues with them.
If all else fails, you can try to convince your emplyer to go down to Wal-Mart and buy a CO detector. The ones you buy there are not as sensitive as the M-40 and will not give you instant read outs, but they will go off if the CO is above the safe levels for a period of time.
Good luck!
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